Transcript:

Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast. Career Footprints. In each episode of Career Footprints, we'll ask our guest, a Reed Smith alum to share their career story, how their time at Reed Smith set them up for success and their advice for early career lawyers. Our goal is to surface insights from inspiring professionals careers that will help you find your professional success. However, you define that.

Alicia: Welcome, I am Alicia Millar and I have the great pleasure of welcoming our first guest.

Jaimee: Hi, Alicia. Thank you for having me. My name is Jaimee Farrer. I am assistant general counsel in the litigation group at GSK and I am based in Philadelphia.

Alicia: Wonderful. Thank you for joining us, Jamie. It's a real, real pleasure to meet you once again. We are talking about Reed Smith and the sort of the footprints of those incredible people who have, I guess sort of stepped in the firm along their journey in their careers. And because of that, I am so curious to, to bring to life more about your own career journey. Can you stroll us through? I will stop with the analogies. Can you stroll us through your journey? Uh Some of the milestones or key moments and choices along the way and where Reed Smith played a part of that.

Jaimee: Yeah. So I started my career at another large law firm. Um and I worked there for about five years and I pretty much did exclusively products liability work. I was in their products group and I loved that work. And then, um I ended up laterally to Reed Smith when I was, like I said, about probably a fifth-year attorney. Two of my colleagues had gone to Reed Smith and had great things to say about it. And so I ultimately decided to make the leap along with them a few months after they had joined the firm. And one of those, actually, both of those colleagues are still at Reed Smith. Um They are now Stephen McConnell and Mike Salimbene, who is now a partner at the time. We were both fairly young associates. So I was doing again, largely products work at Reed Smith. I was at Reed Smith for about 4.5, 5 years, worked primarily on the mesh litigation, which was very, very big at the time and was taking up the majority of my time.

And then I had, at the time that I, while I was at Reed Smith, I had a child and then had a second child. And at the time that I had my second child was just feeling that I needed a change. Um and had always thought that I would want to go in-house um for a Pharma company as I had been sort of working with Pharma clients my entire career and an opportunity came about at GSK at the time, not in the role that I currently am. So it was a role called, it was managing attorney in the GELRT Group and that stood for a Global External Legal Relations Team, um which at the time was actually part of litigation group. It has since moved into a legal operations function, but at the time, it was part of litigation and the role was to basically partner with our external council and put in place alternative fee agreements and work with the in-house attorneys to scope out the work and just sort of help make sure those relationships remain strong, um and dealt with any fee disputes, et cetera so very different than what I had been doing. I mean, it was a legal role but not practicing law in the traditional sense.

And it was honestly a really nice change of pace at the time, sort of from the, you know, trials and tribulations of, of being in big law and working at a law firm. And it was kind of a nice breather and a nice change of pace to sort of see the business side. And I thought that I could, you know, bring a lot of value given that I had worked on many of the types of cases that we, I was helping put the agreements into. But I never, actually, when I took that position, I never actually thought that that was going to be a sort of my landing place at GSK. I was hoping that that position would then be a launching off point to a role that I really wanted, which is my current role. However, I didn't quite even get into my current role right away.

So another opportunity opened up, um, about 18 months into my tenure at GSK and it was also within the litigation group, but it was as Investigations Council. So managing the company's attorney client privileged, um, internal and government investigations. Very, very much outside of my comfort zone, not something I had ever previously done in private practice. So it was definitely a stretch role and it was at times a little bit scary when I started, it probably took me a good six months to actually feel comfortable in the role and like I sort of knew what I was doing, but, you know, all of my skills of taking depositions doing fact discovery really came to bear and I had the right skill set. I just, you know, it was not something I had done previously, but I really enjoyed that role. And I did that for another 18 months until my current role became available, which is a just straight litigation role kind of helping to manage the company's litigation docket. And so that is what I am doing now. And my primary responsibility right now is to manage the Zantac litigation for GSK. So that is what I do mostly day to day right now.

Alicia: What an incredible practice you have and a journey even through GSK, let alone where sort of Reed Smith plays a part in, in, in your career to date so far. I have a couple of questions based on what you were saying. And I'm really curious about the sort of the main difference between, I guess the working life that you have in private practice versus in-house. And I know that that could be around structure of the organization and all the way down to, you know, literally your working day to day. What's from your perspective, those, those big difference between private practice and in-house?

Jaimee: So I think the biggest difference is your day to day, the types of people that you're interacting with and what the type of work that you're doing. So when I was in private practice, I spent a lot of time, you know, reviewing documents, reading deposition transcripts, writing briefs, reading case law. And I, I think I spent a lot of time sort of in my office, you know, by myself, like reading and thinking and drafting things and that is very, very different than in-house where I spend most of my day on um phone calls or in meetings, sort of updating people on the matters that I work on talking mo like a lot of my day is spent talking with our external counsel to get updates on cases, to talk about strategy, you know, to ask questions so that I can then brief our senior management and provide sort of clear advice.

So I think the hardest part honestly about being in-house is that and I think many of my colleagues would probably echo this, is that often you feel like because you're running from meeting to meeting, which I like because it's a lot of just sort of talking and interacting. You don't have the same space and time necessarily to think and you have to be really, really intentional about carving that time out of your day. So if you really need time to sort of, you know, draft a memo or you need time to sort of really think through an issue, you know, or put a presentation together, it's, that's time that you really have to be very intentional about blocking off in your calendar because those opportunities of just sort of time to think and pontificate on things don't come about a lot just because your day is so jam packed.

Alicia: And from that, it makes me think, you know, time has a very, very different meaning.

Jaimee: Time has a very different meaning. Yeah, I mean, at least like the great thing is that I no longer have to bill hours. Um So that it was very hard to get used to not having to bill hours. But, you know, I no longer have to worry about. Am I billing enough or am I billing too much? But it's also having to really, I think time management is in a lot of ways more important than it was when I worked at a law firm just because I have a lot of internal, more deadlines. I think that I used to have in a law firm. I mean, you law firm, you have deadlines that are based on, you know, court filings, et cetera. This is more kind of responsive to the businesses needs in terms of what my deadlines could be. And I don't always know what those needs are. I mean, you could find out someone needs something kind of on the drop of a hat. So it's a little bit different.

Um, and I also, I think the maybe misconception is that, you know, the hours are so much better in-house than in, in, you know, in a law firm and especially in big law. And while I think that's true to some extent, I think, I, you know, I don't know that necessarily like you're working so much less. I mean, if you have a big case, if you have a case going to trial, you're working the same amount, I think as you worked when you were in a law firm, I think it's just a little bit it's a little bit different in terms of kind of when and how you spend those hours.

Alicia: So the, the actual management of your time rather rather than, you know, sort of necessary the allocation of your time that will then be billed and go into something that will come back from a client one day. I also heard that, you know, sort of what, what I'm getting from it is there's a movement from overwhelming heavy on task when you're in private practice to actually being much more focused on people when you're in-house. Is that, is that fair? Is that, did I hear that right?

Jaimee: Yeah, much more focused on people and much more focused on overall business strategy. And however, what you're doing is actually impacting and has a direct effect on the business, which is not something, at least as an associate that I truly appreciated when I worked at Reed Smith or, you know, at any law firm. Um, because as you said, you're very, very focused on the task, you know, on the, on the individual case that you are assigned to work up. And so you're really in the weeds and when you're in house, you actually can't generally afford to be in the weeds.

Alicia: Got it, got it. I'm gonna, I'm, I'm really curious now about the, the skills that you've taken from your time in private practice certainly at Reed Smith and at other law firms. Is, is there an obvious sort of transfer I heard you say about, you know, the, the taking depositions, the ability to actually get stuff done, the tasks that you had really have carried along with you? What other skills would you say have you sort of taken along on this journey into, into GSK and actually through, in the different roles that you've had,

Jaimee: I would say clear writing skills and the ability to clearly and succinctly communicate. Obviously, generally, when you're working for a law firm, you know, you're primarily when you're writing, you're either writing briefs, motions, you know, or maybe a memo to a client or a more senior partner. Obviously, when you're in-house, you're not the person writing the briefs, you may write a memo, but it's really about communicating succinctly to senior management. And so really kind of honing in on what are the key issues, what would the business care about being able to strip away the facts and really kind of working on being able to deliver a very tight, you know, executive summary because senior people do not have time um necessarily, or the desire to read very lengthy, you know, documents. So while you may have, you know, an appendix with much more explanation, you have to figure out like what are the key things that they care about and how do I convey those quickly, like in one page so that I can grab their attention and they're gonna actually read and retain that. And I think, you know, all of the writing experience that I got at Reed Smith really helped me to be able to do that. I mean, I used to hate, hate writing sort of intros and conclusions because I actually think those are the hardest to write because you're trying to distill, you know, everything in your 20 page break down into, you know, a page. But that's basically what I now have to do all the time. And so, you know, the better you can get at that early on, I think it's helpful later in your career.

Alicia: Got it. Absolutely. Got it. Now, I obviously my world is around learning and development, training, professional growth, that sort of thing. So I am really curious how have you continued to learn and grow professionally now that you're outside of a law firm environment?

Jaimee: So for me, it's been about taking on assignments or taking on roles that are, as I said before, very outside of my comfort zone and really trying to stretch and grow and not always just taking the safe choice. So I think even coming into GSK and taking that GELRT role was definitely, you know, off the beaten path of sort of what I always, I envisioned my career path to be, I always kind of assumed I would just be a litigator and that was obviously very much not being a litigator and not litigation. And so I think it's being able to sort of take risks. And then if, when an opportunity presents itself kind of jumping with, you know, head first, both feet in and really grasping that opportunity and trying to get whatever you can out of it, even if you're scared. Because I think those opportunities, then first of all, they help you to be able to expand your skill set and just be a more versatile attorney. And then ultimately, I think, you know, showing that you're willing to do different types of things you're willing to learn then helps open the door to the next bigger and better opportunity.

Alicia: And do you see yourself, you know, sort of in a version of uh the, the perhaps Reed Smith world? Ie. you have mentors around you, you've got sort of people who are supervising and line managing and that sort of thing. Does that, does that still exist? Do you have the opportunity to be mentored by other people? Uh And, and in turn mentor down, is there a structure like that? Because I, I sort of look at that as learning in the moment, learning from other people as well as, you know, the choices that you make and the opportunities that come in the, in the day to day work. Do you have those sort of people around you as well?

Jaimee: You definitely do have those people around you. But I think it's less formal of a structure than it is for example at Reed Smith, you know, where you, you know, have a partner that you're always working with and you're sort of in that type of an organization where there are always people above and below you to both, you know, learn from and, and sort of to help shepherd along. You know, at least at GSK, certainly I have been fortunate to have been mentored by my managers over the years and those are probably I think the most obvious mentors, but also I think my colleagues, so both in and out of my group, I mean, I interact with a lot of people both within and outside of legal. And I have, I actually have an informal mentoring relationship with someone else who's on the legal leadership team at GSK outside of my group. So she's been really great. It's kind of a good person to be able to bounce ideas off of who isn't so enmeshed in my day to day and can give me a much more objective sort of view of things. And it is also a safe space and then also in terms of my colleagues. So we don't have a structure where in my group, anyone other than my manager has direct reports. So we're all sort of about on the same level, doing similar things.

But a lot of my colleagues have been at GSK for many, many years, like 20 plus years, which is just a testament to the great company that it is. And so they, I think have been around the block in the sense that, you know, they understand how GSK works. They understand like our often complicated processes, they sort of know who, you know, who to talk to, who to go to. They've sort of lived it all. So it, it's very helpful, I think to have those people around who can kind of help, help you when you're, when you get stuck or you can go to them to bounce ideas off of. So I think it's just a maybe in some ways, a more collaborative type of working environment as opposed to a formal mentor, mentee relationship type environment.

Alicia: Got it. And um I must ask this, of course, because I'm intrigued, is it easier to have working relationships with people outside of legal? Ie. because you talked about, you know, business strategy, you talked about, you know, sort of the way in which you understand and my interpretation of that is the real commercial side of your business. Do you have the chance to interact and, and work alongside people who are not in legal who are across the organization?

Jaimee: Yes, very often. And it, and, and that's also been in some way, it's dependent on my role. So for example, in my previous role, when I was in Investigations Council, I worked hand in hand every day with our compliance colleagues. So I knew a lot of people and worked with them in the compliance group and sort of got a better understanding of what our compliance colleagues do, so outside of legal. Now, I feel like as in my litigation role, I have an opportunity to meet with so many different people throughout the company because I need subject matter experts. So, you know, when we have company witnesses that need to testify, I have to figure out who, who can I talk to that was working on, you know, R & D or that was working in supply chain, for example. And so I end up meeting lots of people and learning about their roles and also sort of learning about the company as a, as it relates, you know, to a specific litigation, which is very nice and very interesting. So it's kind of both in an, you know, informational way, but also sometimes you need to interview those people or help prepare them for deposition. So I actually think that I've been lucky in that, I think I've been able to interact with a wide swath of the company both inside and outside of legal.

Alicia: Amazing. Thank you. Of course, it would be remiss if I didn't ask you about, you know, how you engage with and work with your outside council. And I think for me and given, given our audience is our sort of younger lawyers at Reed Smith they may be sort of a one or two years into practicing, what is it that you would invite them to consider when working with in house counsel, when, when working with a version of you?

Jaimee: So I really view my external counsel as my partners in the trenches. I mean, honestly, I spend more of my time working and talking with my outside counsel than I do with my GSK colleagues when I'm involved in a litigation. So it's almost as if they are like, I'm part of the firm or they are an extension of GSK. And so it's, you know, I think it's hard, especially in large law firms when you're very junior to get direct client exposure and have direct interactions with the client, especially on really, really large litigations. But what I would say is that the client is always watching. So if we get a memo, for example, on a specific issue, I'll know who wrote the memo. Like, I'll see like, you know, who did the memo come from, who wrote it? Because we all know that it's the associates that are the ones that are really taking the pen there. And if the memo is really good, I mean, I'll, I'll note that in the future, I will also note when we are doing witness preps, for example, and there's always, you know, a partner with an associate helping, usually the associate might be there, you know, to sort of take notes or, you know, help ask questions. But I, I'll note, you know who that person is, especially if I'm seeing them a lot and, you know, some people are really good and you can tell that by the questions that they ask or if they're given an opportunity to cross examine, for example, not cross a witness, if they can really step up and do that and you can really see very quickly who is indispensable. Um And I would also say, you know, to the extent that you get opportunities to, you know, meet the client or be face to face or in front of them. I mean, take those opportunities if you are able, if you're allowed, you know, to be the person that's emailing the client, you know, just make sure that your emails are, you know, professional that you're responsive or for me, responsiveness is probably one of the most important qualities. It is completely fine if you cannot get me an answer right now because you have to research it or you have to, you know, talk to others, try to get a collective and consensus response. But just let me know like, hey, thanks got your email. We're working on it. That means so much, even if you haven't gotten back to me with an actual substantive answer. So I think all of those things are supremely important. 

Alicia: And I think that certainly goes  back to your point around you having to really manage your time and make the most of the time that you have. So having that responsiveness, having that clear communication and keeping you informed. I think I can, I can definitely sense that that's going to help you in your day to day when you're back in the office.

Jaimee: Yeah. And one other thing too, I would just say to try to make yourself into the go to person on a particular issue. So if you have the facts at your disposal, if you are really facile with those facts, if you're the kind of the person that knows everything about a particular case, like I notice those kinds of things too and like I will, I will end up emailing that person. I won't email the partner, I will email that associate because I know that they're going to know the answer.

Alicia: Got it. Absolutely. Got it. Thank you. I guess in the sort of our final bit of time together, I'm, I'm always fascinated to hear, you know, what, what would be your, I don't know the, what do we call it these days? The message to your younger self or certainly, what would you say to our young attorneys about career longevity, the wise words, I guess to remember about, you know, sort of either your time in Reed Smith or just your time as a, as a fantastic practicing lawyer? What would you say to them?

Jaimee: So I would say that I think most younger attorneys, myself included, the common perception is, you know, to be a good lawyer to be thought of as a great associate, you know, you really just need to keep your head down and work really hard, you know, do good work and people will recognize you. While I think that's true. I think it's what really matters even more than that is the relationships that you create, you know, with your colleagues and making sure that you never burn bridges and that you really take the time to form deep and meaningful and lasting relationships because you don't know how your career is going to unfold and how things may come full circle later and where people will end up, you know, who may end up being sort of helpful to you, whether you work with people again.

And I can just give a very brief example about my own career and how sort of everything in the last two years has come full circle for me. So at my first firm that I worked at prior to Reed Smith that I worked at for five years, like I loved my experience there, I made a lot of good friends that were both my own peers, but also I was very, very friendly with much more senior people to me, both senior associates and junior partners. At that time, I ultimately left that firm, went to Reed Smith and I went to Reed Smith because I had a great relationship with a partner that had left my previous firm and gone to Reed Smith. And we'd had a great working relationship for years and it's Steve McConnell and he, you know, he's still at Reed Smith. He's a fantastic lawyer and an even more fantastic person. And because we had had that great relationship, you know, he was like, you should come over to Reed Smith and you should work with me again. And so I took that leap and it was, you know, great. It really helped, I think, further launch my career.

And so, you know, because he knew that I, I was looking and I might want to leave. And because of that and my relationship with him when that GSK job, uh that initial job came about, my boss Brennan Torregrossa, who was very good friends with Steve McConnell because they had also previously worked together, you know, he said to Steve, like I have this job that's available. Do you know anyone? And Steve came to me and said, you know, there's this job available. Like he knew that I was potentially wanting to go in-house. And it turned out that I had known Brennan from my very first job when I was a baby associate, Brennan was the partner that I had done a lot of work for. And it had been eight years prior and we had kept in touch. Were we super good friends or close? No, but I would see him at various events around town and we had kept in touch and so when that job came up, I was like, oh, wow, this is a great opportunity and it might be my chance to get in. It's so hard to get in-house jobs.

You often have to know someone at least to get your foot in the door. So that was my chance. And I think that really helped me be able to differentiate myself and get that job. Fast forward, like five years in my current role that I'm managing Zantac. The firm that is our National Coordinating Council is the firm that I had worked at as a younger associate for the first five years of my career that I had made all of those great relationships with. And those are the very same people that I am now managing on a day to day basis in the Zantac litigation. And so it's great because I know them so well, I used to work with them, we have a great relationship. It was a very, very easy transition when I took over that role.

But I only, I, I've thought and reflected a lot over the last two years of like, what if we had had a terrible relationship? Um when I left that firm, like what if I hadn't been so close with all of these people? And then I was put in a situation where then I even had to manage them. Like that would have been very, very awkward. And so I think it's just you never, like I said, you never know where your career is going to take you. You never know where other people are going to end up. And it's just very, very helpful from a networking perspective, from a working perspective to maintain your relationships. 

Alicia: And people in relationships, so very much at the core of our careers and, and the longevity within it, no matter where we twist and turn and no matter where our journey takes us, those people that cross our paths in a, in a very good way, we do carry that. And that's I think an absolutely wonderful message to close out this podcast on. I want to say, Jamie, it has been a great pleasure. Uh listening to your career journey and wherever it may go next, I can certainly feel that there is, there's some insight there. There's certainly inspiration for our young lawyers here at Reed Smith and I want to thank you so much for your time.

Jaimee: Thank you so much Alicia for having me. I really appreciate it.

Alicia: Great pleasure. Thank you.

Outro: Career Footprints is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, PodBean and reedsmith.com to learn more about Reed Smith's Alumni Network, or if you're an alum of the firm who wants to share your career story, contact me, Reed Smith's Global Senior Director of Alumni Relations, Laura Karmatz at alumni@reedsmith.com.

Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.

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